Interrogators, torture victims want old McCain back

"I join my voice with Joshua and the thousands around the country who are calling for Sen. McCain to go back and to clarify, and to speak as he spoke at one time simply to say that torture cannot be justified," said former torture victim and Purple Heart Recipient Father Roy Bourgeois. He, and others spoke in a teleconference to discuss what they see as Sen. John McCain's (R-Ariz.) policy shift on the use of torture as interrogation techniques.

Joshua Casteel, a former U.S. military interrogator who served at the Abu Ghraib prison camp said that he was initially very proud to hear from Captain Ian Fishback, who publicized the views of McCain against torture techniques. He said these views contrasted those of Vice President Dick Cheney. Casteel went on to say that McCain seems to have changed his tune. He concluded by saying, "As a former interrogator myself, and with friends of interrogators and torturers, we are simply saying we want old Senator McCain back."

USAction Program Director Alan Charney also stated that Sen. McCain is the only US senator to have changed his position on the issue, referencing McCain's decision to negotiate with President Bush over habeas corpus legislation, and his decision to vote against legislation containing provisions that would have prevented the CIA from waterboarding prisoners. This past month, McCain also blasted the Supreme Court for its ruling in Boumediene v. Bush, holding that the executive branch must respect habeas corpus rights even when dealing with enemy combatants.

Treating terrorists with respect

Effective anti-torture interrogation techniques were discussed at the
Center for Strategic and International Studies in conjunction with
Human Rights First. Colonel Stuart Herrington, a retired US Army
intelligence officer, stated that Americans should not have to
question which interrogation methods are appropriate and, having
witnessed a woman being waterboarded in Vietnam by contracted
Vietnamese interrogators, said he has no doubt that waterboarding is
torture.

Herrington said that a stigma exists which places interrogation as a
low priority, causing highly qualified individuals to seek other jobs.
Joe Navarro, a former FBI interrogator, said that an interrogator
must speak the language of the informant while being aware of their
culture and political history. Navarro added that being a criminal
interrogator is less complex than an interrogator of terrorists and
that detailed training is essential for federal interrogators.

Navarro stated that a successful interview is subtle, saying a relaxed
brain is best able to remember detailed information. Herrington
expressed his surprise that high officials approved of using
interrogation methods that cross moral bounds, saying that officials
must have been misinformed of each procedures' details. Navarro added
that an interrogator is supposed to convince an informant to release
information, not threaten, and that acts of kindness help to build
informants' confidence in the interrogator. He concluded by saying
that the United States will not be successful if it employs "Gestapo"
techniques and added that even Nazi interrogators knew to treat their
informants with respect.

Military training misconstrued at Guantanamo

The origins of aggressive interrogation methods were discussed by the Senate Armed Services Committee. In his opening statement, Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) said methods used in US military programs that intend to help captured American forces resist violent interrogation through simulation have been twisted by military forces and used to interrogate. Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) added that the Bush administration used “bizarre legal theories” to justify interrogation strategies and asserts that its decisions will be considered shortsighted in the future. Graham expressed concern with the Supreme Court’s decision that prisoners in Guantanamo Bay have the right to habeas corpus, saying that Americans will be disturbed to realize that they have the same constitutional rights as terrorists.

Dr. Jerald Ogrisseg, a former Air Force psychologist, said that the Air Force’s (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape) SERE program is not intended to teach interrogation but rather to help captured Americans resist forms of interrogation used by states and parties that are not in compliance with the Geneva Convention. Retired Air Force Lt. Col. Daniel Baumgartner Jr. said a memo outlining physical pressures put on American prisoners-of-war sent to him by Ogrisseg was requested by the office of the Secretary of Defense. Both Baumgartner and Ogrisseg said they were under the impression that the Department of Defense wanted to determine appropriate interrogation procedures and had that they had no reason to assume the memo would be used to promote improper methods.

Ogrisseg said Navy SEALS subjected to brief waterboarding in training repeatedly stated they would divulge information to captors if faced with the waterboard again. Navy procedures allowed for trainees to be waterboarded for no more than 20 seconds with no more than two pints of water. Baumgartner said what the committee referred to as “SERE techiniques” are used often and have worked against American troops. Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) stated that it would have been more logical for the Department of Defense to seek interrogation advice from the FBI instead of using a program not meant to teach interrogation. Senator Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii) questioned the effectiveness of aggressive interrogation, pointing out the likelihood that captured terrorists have undergone training similar to that of United States Armed Forces.

House Judiciary Committee Subcommittee hearing on the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel

Acting Assistant Attorney General Steven Bradbury of the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel, said there is a specific definition as to what is torture. Torture, he said, is when severe mental or physical suffering causes prolonged mental harm. He said the physiological sensation of the "gag" or "drowning" reaction is what makes the technique acute, even though you know you're not going to drown.

There are new statutes in the War Crimes Act, Bradbury said, that took the definition of torture and changed it. The new statutes became effective Fall 2006, and the department has not analyzed the practice of waterboarding under that new statute. He also said he is not aware of any deaths resulting from being waterboarded.

During questioning about the destroyed CIA tapes, Bradbury said he was not involved in the discussion nor did he have personal knowledge about it, and when asked who may have destroyed them he said, "I don't know." Although he was repeatedly asked the same question in various different ways, he kept saying "I don't know."

Representative Melvin Watt (D-NC) asked if the president had the authority to "disregard" the legality of waterboarding, and under Article II of the Constitution, would he be able to order waterboarding to be done. Bradbury would not directly answer the question, instead saying that the president would not do that even with the power to do so. Watt repeated the question six times, and emphasized that he did not want to know if the president "would" do it, the question was if the president "could" step over the law under Article II. Bradbury never answered that question.

Attorney General Michael Mukasey testifies before the Senate Judiciary Committee

Chairman Patrick Leahy and the ranking member Arlen Specter presided. Also present were Senators Jon Kyl, Richard Durbin, Diane Feinstein, Joe Biden, Edward Kennedy, Orrin Hatch, Charles Schumer, Charles Grassley, John Sessions, Herb Kohl.

In his opening statement Judiciary Committee Chairman Senator Patrick Leahy said that the state of the Department of Justice has declined to the same state as the “dark days” following Watergate. He angrily emphasized torture, zooming in on waterboarding, “Tragically this administration has so twisted America’s role , law and values that our own State Department, our military officers, and apparently, Americas top law enforcement officer, are now instructed by the White House not to say that waterboarding is torture and illegal.”

Waterboarding and other interrogation techniques took center stage. Most of the first questions from each senator focused on that topic.

In his opening statement ranking member Arlen Specter said that Congress should endeavor to “define the parameters” of waterboarding. Specifically he said that Congress should hold hearings on whether “the CIA should be limited to the Army Field Manual.” He also made a brief reference to the contempt citations Congress is considering for White House Counsel Harriet Myers and Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten.

Mukasey read about a fourth of his opening statement focusing on future appointments of Justice officials and waterboarding. Mukasey said that because waterboarding is not currently authorized for use by the CIA and “may never be authorized,” he felt it was not right to comment on it’s legality until he was faced by concrete facts. In response to a question from Sen. John Sessions, Mukasey said that he is not authorized to speak about incidents that have happened in the past declining to comment on use of waterboarding by CIA agents in the past. He did say that the abuse of prisoners and use of waterboarding is not widespread.

Democratic members, specifically Edward Kennedy scolded Mukasey for refusing to comment on the legality or authorization of waterboarding. He asked bluntly, “would waterboarding be torture if it was done to you?”

Mukasey answered, “I would feel that it was.” And proceeded to deconstruct Kennedy’s reasoning, evading a straight answer. Later on he did say that certain techniques are clearly illegal such as maiming or raping a subject.

Mukasey said the the heinousness, or “shocking the conscience of the American people,” of certain interrogation techniques should be balanced against the value of the information to be gained by interrogation. Senator Joe Biden who had asked the question leading to this answer repeated the phrase “shocking the conscience” saying he had never heard anyone in the Justice Department approach the value of potential torture in that way.

The Department of Justice investigation into the destruction of tapes made of interrogations came up, but only briefly as Mukasey said he should not comment in depth about an ongoing investigation. The committee asked to be updated.

Iowa Senator Charles Grassley brought up a Department of Justice opposition to a Senate bill protecting whistleblowers with security clearance, allowing them to report wrongdoing while keeping classified information secret. Mukasey said that the Senate’s idea ignored a chain of command and left out the president.

Illegal immigration and crime prevention programs also came up. Mukasey said that deportation and prosecution of illegal immigrants depends on the specific challenges faced on the border.